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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Van Mathias
Dead Space Collective
7
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Posted - 2013.04.08 20:56:00 -
[1] - Quote
+1 vote on keeping Rokh resists the same, not all of us use rails on them, and blaster range is anemic as is, and every point of resist on that helps mitigate that. Indeed, I would like to see a Navy Faction Rokh with more resists on it. The last thing we need is to make battleships more fragile in comparison to other ship classes.
The issue here is not that resists are too good, the issue is that buffer bonuses in conjunction with resist bonuses are too good. This is much like the same way that the old nano setups buff were too good, you once could buff both agility and mass, and this led to ridiculous results. I would suggest making tank extenders give a marginal penalty to resists as part of their effect, as a substitute/compliment for their signal radius/mass penalty.
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Van Mathias
Dead Space Collective
7
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Posted - 2013.04.08 21:07:00 -
[2] - Quote
Look at the original post man.
Also, I would recommending raising the cost of all battleships, the current levels of tank are ok, but their power at max skills is a bit out of line with their base costs.
Post your advanced battleship ideas here! |
Van Mathias
Dead Space Collective
7
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Posted - 2013.04.08 23:09:00 -
[3] - Quote
Rise, if you are actively scanning the thread, word is CCP wants to make ships more fragile to increase isk sink losses, making resists lower on BS's is the wrong way to do this I think. Why not increase the base material costs of all battleship hulls instead?
Post your advanced battleship ideas here! |
Van Mathias
Dead Space Collective
7
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Posted - 2013.04.09 00:24:00 -
[4] - Quote
Yea, at this point, its like "Hey! All of the best tech 1 BS's are getting slightly worse! One other battleship is getting slightly better, but other than that, Status Quo!". Is there any reason to fly tech 1 BS's over strategic cruisers at this point?
Post your advanced battleship ideas here! |
Van Mathias
Dead Space Collective
7
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Posted - 2013.04.09 01:41:00 -
[5] - Quote
My point exactly, why fly a BS when a strat cruiser owns any BS that isnt a pirate faction model? You spend about as much SP and ISK into either of those options, but one is so much stupidly better than the other.
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Van Mathias
Dead Space Collective
8
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Posted - 2013.04.09 03:19:00 -
[6] - Quote
Quote:I think the Rokh should have a damage bonus instead of optimal. It really should, imo, be able to do more dps then a Naga.
No, the Rokh is far too slow to use a straight damage bonus effectively. Also it's range bonus IS a damage bonus. Try fitting blasters.
Now I'm off to go sulk over the Rokh nerf.
Post your advanced battleship ideas here! |
Van Mathias
Dead Space Collective
9
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Posted - 2013.04.09 13:04:00 -
[7] - Quote
XDMR, I think CCP Rise is a bit invested in Alpha-maels game wise, so they remain untouched. Rokhs and Abaddons on the other hand, have the only bonus that can stand up to alphagank, so they get nerfed.
CCP Rise, please post that resists rebalance thread so that we may try to convince you to change something other than the Rokh and Abaddon's resist bonuses, Your not just nerfing their tanks here, your are also giving a giant middle finger to anyone who has trained Battleship 5 for these ships.
If remote reps + resist tank is OP, lets talk about adding a temporary resist penalty to people who are actively receiving reps. There are ways to make the game more interesting and tactical without screwing over those of use who have invested 40 days into BS 5 and 120 days into tech 2 large weaps.
Post your advanced battleship ideas here! |
Van Mathias
Dead Space Collective
11
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Posted - 2013.04.09 15:30:00 -
[8] - Quote
Lina Thiest, that resist bonus is one of the best individial bonuses in the game, which is why you are seeing so many tears over it. Also, that range bonus is essentail to blaster doctrine, and is effectively a damage bonus at longer ranges. As for being a viable ship, the rokh is the backbone of many large fleets, its one of the best balanced battleships around as it is. Please see my previous post on what should be done with it change wise
Also, reducing the resist bonus will bring down ehp far more than 8k, a rokh with a good fitting can hit 120k ehp without much trouble, and the reduction will slice off about 12% of that, effectively.
Vote no on resists change. (There's not really a vote, but protest anyway.)
Post your advanced battleship ideas here! |
Van Mathias
Dead Space Collective
11
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Posted - 2013.04.09 15:42:00 -
[9] - Quote
25% damage bonus is the Naga's territory, if you like it so much fly that. Also, blasters have significant drawbacks, they are good, but you pay for it in several ways. Not the least of which is their abysmal range, worst in the game.
Post your advanced battleship ideas here! |
Van Mathias
Dead Space Collective
11
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Posted - 2013.04.09 16:00:00 -
[10] - Quote
Um, what? Why in the heck would I want 2 railboats instead of 1 railboat and 1 blastership? Also, the Rokh relies on its range to nullify the damage bonuses of other ships. As Garviel said, its for near range kiting.
The entire point of ship roles is that a each ship is supposed to do 1 thing well, within a reasonable range of variation. So having a Rokh that uses both rails and blasters equally well goes against that. I would recommend you play a bit more and understand better how large ship doctrine works before making suggestions that go directly against the stated direction of development by CCP.
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Van Mathias
Dead Space Collective
11
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Posted - 2013.04.09 16:41:00 -
[11] - Quote
Sir, why don't you review a copy of Strunk and White?
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Van Mathias
Dead Space Collective
11
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Posted - 2013.04.09 16:51:00 -
[12] - Quote
Well, like it or not, we seem to be heading to an era of arty alpha dominance, with the only ships that can effectively oppose it being made significantly worse. All hail CCP Rise's alphafleet. 
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Van Mathias
Dead Space Collective
11
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Posted - 2013.04.09 17:11:00 -
[13] - Quote
Its called a deadspace mwd, there are several types available at a lower price point.
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Van Mathias
Dead Space Collective
11
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Posted - 2013.04.09 17:46:00 -
[14] - Quote
Hmm? The c-types are sold at a very resonable price, if you can afford a rokh hull, you shouldnt have any problems affording a c-type MWD.
Post your advanced battleship ideas here! |
Van Mathias
Dead Space Collective
11
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Posted - 2013.04.09 18:36:00 -
[15] - Quote
Why should the scorp, a Caldari ship, armor tank? The problem is that ECM's take mids, and several people have suggested to making it a highslot mod, which it should be. Once that is done, you will be able to shield tank it adequately.
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Van Mathias
Dead Space Collective
11
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Posted - 2013.04.09 19:14:00 -
[16] - Quote
Actually, I could see the tank order for Caldari BS being Raven/Light - Scorpion/Meduim - Rokh/Heavy. I would also reccomend that if this is the way forward, to redo the raven hull to look like a thick B2-Spirit.
Post your advanced battleship ideas here! |
Van Mathias
Dead Space Collective
11
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Posted - 2013.04.09 22:55:00 -
[17] - Quote
Hmm, this scorp idea sounds interesing, I could go for it.
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Van Mathias
Dead Space Collective
14
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Posted - 2013.04.10 15:39:00 -
[18] - Quote
Honestly, if they want to nerf the Rokh tank, they should slice off some shield HP, not the resist bonus.
Post your advanced battleship ideas here! |
Van Mathias
Dead Space Collective
14
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Posted - 2013.04.10 16:05:00 -
[19] - Quote
+1 Tilo! I have been arguing that point all along, add me to the list of dedicated Rokh pilots you have there.
I would also suggest again making remote reps give a resist penalty to the target for the duration of the rep, and a few seconds afterwards. That would do far more to balance out the broken effects of high resists + logi across all ships than a slight nerf to two select hulls.
Also, where is the resist discussion thread you promised CCP Rise?
Post your advanced battleship ideas here! |
Van Mathias
Dead Space Collective
14
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Posted - 2013.04.10 18:08:00 -
[20] - Quote
Deacon, a better nerf for large fleets of Rokhs and Abaddons is increasing their base material cost. It makes sense, because they are supposed to be tougher ships anyway. This nerf is aimed a large fleets, and you are right, a nerf like this wont break the ship in that context, but like others have said, that's not the only context that it is used. By doing this, they are going to decrease the amount of situations where a Rokh will be useful in small gang/solo combat. Indeed, the change could kill off its solo combat potential altogether.
I don't participate in huge BS fleet fights, and I'm not really interested in game play in the largest blobs. So this nerf is hitting me, even though I'm not the intended target.
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Van Mathias
Dead Space Collective
15
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Posted - 2013.04.11 19:25:00 -
[21] - Quote
Ugh, is there any point to battleships as they stand anymore with the Faction BC's that are coming out? They are cheaper, and are about as powerful, but can hit more things on the field. I mean, honestly. First the tank nerf, then this! It's like CCP thinks the way to balance BS's is to make them unplayable.
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Van Mathias
Dead Space Collective
17
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Posted - 2013.04.11 21:22:00 -
[22] - Quote
See, here is the thing. When you propose cutting resists in order to make BS's more losable, and then you release faction BC's that cost 80% as much and provide 90% of the tank, it blows the whole reduce resists to preserve meta argument out of the water. The new faction battlecruisers will completely ruin any current BS meta anyway.
I have given a bit more thought to it, and here is what needs to be done:
All BS ehp needs to be boosted about 33% more.
All BS cargoholds need to be doubled in size.
No resist nerf for any ship.
Double all battleship base material costs.
All battleship need to be buffed a bit utility wise. This has mostly been covered by the proposed changes.
Give the Rokh 25m3 more drone bay.
A modest cap buff for all BS's
Fix large missiles.
More speed for the raven.
Buff large blaster optimal a bit (500-1500m), the TE nerf is not really targeted at this weapon.
and
Split omni Invulns into size classes, and increase the cycle cost of the BS sized invuln by 50%, increase the cycle cost of the meduim sized one by 25%, and leave the small size one as it is. One of the big reasons that active resists boosts are so powerful is because they are so cheap cap wise, so running a dual-invuln is easy. Making 2 invulns cost 3 cap wise will go a long way to reducing the attractiveness of that fitting option. If you want cap cheap omni tank, you should have to really pay for it slot wise. And there should be a resist penalty to the target of remote reps for the duration of the rep and a few seconds afterward. Furthermore there should be a penalty of some sort for all directly applied (Not fleet booster or OGB) buff effects.
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Van Mathias
Dead Space Collective
17
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Posted - 2013.04.12 00:25:00 -
[23] - Quote
7000 is a bit much, 8000 / 7500 / 7500 would be more resonable. Same total base HP, but a bit of EHP shaved off.
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Van Mathias
Dead Space Collective
20
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Posted - 2013.04.12 13:49:00 -
[24] - Quote
CCP Rise, it's been 3 days since you promised the resist thread! Are we not past the point of "soon"? Where in the heck is that thread you promised?
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Van Mathias
Dead Space Collective
20
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Posted - 2013.04.12 14:14:00 -
[25] - Quote
The squeaky wheel gets the grease....
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